Designing with Intention: Ron Price on the Power of Experiential E-Learning

In this episode of Catalysts, I sit down with Ron Price, Chief Learning Officer at Yukon Learning—Articulate’s official training partner for over 17 years. Ron brings a rare blend of deep instructional design expertise and hands-on development experience, helping organizations turn good ideas into great learning experiences.

Together, we explore:

• Why scenarios and storytelling are essential for meaningful e-learning
• The “3 Cs” model—Challenge, Choice, and Consequence—and how it transforms passive content into immersive learning
• Why bad design speaks louder than good content
• The hidden value of aligning tools, strategy, and design with learner intent
• How Yukon balances training teams to use Articulate with building courses for them
• What most e-learning creators get wrong—and how to fix it

Ron shares how his team helps organizations move beyond rote click-through courses to design learning that earns its place—and drives real behavior change. Whether you’re an L&D leader, an instructional designer, or just curious about elevating the digital learning experience, this episode is packed with practical insights and expert perspective.

🎧 Listen in and learn why Ron believes the future of e-learning isn’t about covering content—it’s about helping learners uncover it.

🔗 Learn more about Ron and Yukon Learning: https://www.yukonlearning.com

📺 Watch their free Articulate tutorials on YouTube: Yukon Learning on YouTube

🔗 Connect with Ron: Ron Price on LinkedIn

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Transcript

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Hey there and welcome back to Catalysts, the leaders shaping the future of learning and growth. I'm your host, Jacob Ratliff, and this is the show where we spotlight the bold thinkers, builders, and leaders who aren't just responding to change in our industry, they're driving it. And today I'm really excited to be joined by Ron Price, who's the chief learning officer at UConn Learning. which is the official certified training partner of Articulate for 17 years. Ron brings a powerful blend of strategy and hands-on execution and helps organizations not just understand the instructional design theory, but implement it through accessible, high-impact e-learning. And so in this episode, we're going to explore how Ron and his team straddle the line between teaching the tools and building with them and what that reveals about the future of e-learning and practical learning strategy. Ron, thank you so much for joining me here today. I'm really excited for our conversation. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jacob. I've been looking forward to it. So let's go ahead and uh dive in with one of the big questions, which is, what's your lens on what makes a great e-learning experience? And specifically, how does that show up in your work at UConn Learning? um Yeah, thanks for asking. You I think for me, experience is a key word. You mentioned learning experience. And a lot of my background is founded in experiential learning. So I used to have a challenge course, for example, down here in Charlotte, North Carolina. And, um you know, in those situations, you're facilitating really the energy of the group, whatever they're doing, whatever's happening. And so with that mindset, uh as a facilitator, you work hard not to teach or not to present content or not to give advice, but instead create experiences for the learner to show up and then experiment with their own decisions and the behaviors to discover what whatever comes up, what, you know, what What do they really need to know? So, you know, obviously we did have um some ideas behind that of where we want them to end up, but instead of telling them, this is where you're to end up, we would create opportunities or scenarios for them to walk in that space and then have to uh figure things out. And I think one of the challenges or the lens that I like to put on is how do you capture that energy? um in an e-learning format. It ends up, you know, that's why I think scenarios can be very powerful learning experiences for people. When you think about an escape room, you know, you kind of know where you're starting and you know what you're trying to do. You're trying to get out, but it can go in all these different directions to, for something like that to happen. And, you know, we don't always have that freedom um with subject matter experts and compliance needs and legal teams that are saying, hey, these things have to happen this way. But if you can put on that, um look at learning from that lens of going, what does the learner really need to do? And then give them that opportunity to kind of discover versus just listen and take notes, but actually move into it. uh One of the phrases we use sometimes when we teach storyline and rise even is instead of us covering material, we're going to have you uncover the material. And I think that That kind of a lens is a powerful lens for learning. Absolutely, thank you. I this big emphasis on experience. mentioned scenarios uh as being a great way of providing experience. uh I'm curious, could you give an example or maybe share a little bit more uh for anyone who might not be familiar with what you mean by that? I think your audio cut out, Omi, for just a second. uh Give an example of what? Yeah, so I'm wondering if you could give an example of kind of what you mean when you say scenario just for anyone listening who might not immediately understand what you're talking about. Yeah, sure. So basically a scenario, instead of saying, um you know, this is what you do, or these are the answers, you might put them in a situation. so uh we talk about the, and if you've heard any of, um or read any of Tom Coleman's blogs, he's the chief learning architect at Articulate. He breaks it down into three, what he calls the three C's. You give him a challenge. let them make choices, and then they suffer the consequences of those choices. So when you really think about it like that, you're thinking, hey, instead of me telling you this is what you're learning or this is what you're going to learn, maybe I just put you in a situation. in our experience, the more realistic the situation, the better because it prevents to learn from trivializing the experience. They think, oh, it's a safety course, so let's put you in a situation where there could be something potentially unsafe. And instead of saying, you know, which is the right answer, we would just say, what would you do? um And then as they make choices, we may provide choices for the um end user where really all of the choices are, are actually correct. We say plausible. That means there there's no throwaway choices. They're all like legitimate things that we've seen people do on the job or seeing people do in their experience. And then they could be. you know, maybe they're all right, but one of them is really the best answer. This is really the behavior we want to see in you, but these other things are things we've seen people do. So it allows you to do even things like partial credit, like, you chose a good answer. So we're going to give you this many points for that. But there really was a better answer out there. And so it helps people then begin to understand, why was this answer better? And they can learn from that. And we don't necessarily always tell them, you chose a good answer. um That's C consequence is because you made this choice, here's what's happened. So now that's data you can collect from that experience and then apply it to the next decision. So now you're in a different situation because of that decision you made, now you're in a different set of situations that you have to make other decisions. And so you might find yourself in a decision tree when you're um mapping these out where You know, one learner could be very far away from where another learner ends up based on the decisions they make. I know, depending on how old your audience is, they may have picked up a Choose Your Own Adventure book in their childhood where you get to the end of a page and it says, what do you do now? And if you're going to do this, go to this page. If you're going to do this, go to this page. And you're building something a little bit like that, letting people decide their own adventure. You know, you might have opportunities for people to come back and make different decisions, or you might reach a point where, like a point of no return, hey, you've made a series of so many poor decisions, the only thing you can do is start all over. You've made career ending decisions at this moment, so we're not, uh there's no recovery. But others could go, oh, you've made it, and based on your decisions, uh You've ranked at this level, you're a beginner, you're a novice, or you're an expert in this field, and therefore, you're qualified to do whatever. Then you could almost gamify it a little bit. It creates some different opportunities for that. Basically, you just throw people into a challenge and say, okay, what would you do in this situation? You have some choices you've prescribed, and as they make those choices, they live with those consequences. It might not be till the end of the course. that they get a better understanding of, did I make the right choices or did I make the best choices that were provided for me? And different people have different theories of how to do it, but that's really the approach that we would take, because you immerse them into a situation. ah And they may have some reading or pre-work they've done to understand, or you might use this as part of their assessment of what do you already know? um And then based on how you score, we could... If you're doing an adaptive process, you could say, okay, based on your score, there are certain elements you definitely need to brush up on. So the rest of the training is going to focus on those. uh And then others, may go, hey, based on your performance, here's a cheat sheet, a checklist, but you don't really need to go through the rest of the course because you've done a good job. A learner who's maybe been with an organization a while and knows those nuanced It kind of gets into some of the gray area, the wisdom literature of this content. So it's not like rote memory of what's right, what's wrong. It's about how would I apply it, the principles, in a different situation. And I think what you just said there, not being about rote memory is absolutely critical because it sounds like one of the big things you're doing is breaking people out of this tendency, breaking learners out of this tendency to maybe go on autopilot a little and instead really encouraging them to tap into some critical thinking throughout the process. Yeah. And the writing is the hardest part. mean, the tools that we use like Storyline, it's really mechanically, I can teach people how to build a scenario really easy, uh but you're writing a story really. And so you're moving into a storytelling which helps hopefully engages the learner. And if it's a realistic, it's hopefully something that they have value in. And, you know, just like watching TV, there are some shows the stories are written very well. and some that you don't even know how they're on the air. So the writing is the big key to that. And so I think it raises the level, but even in quiz questions that, I mean, there's so many examples of how people have written, know, quiz questions that are just easy to figure out, even if you don't know the topic. So learning how to write a scenario that's not a dead giveaway to somebody, but also encourages them to kind of reach back. we read, um books by Jay McTighe and Grant Wiggins. have a book called Understanding By Design. And they have another book called Essential Questions. And from their perspective, asking those essential questions, they don't really necessarily have an answer. That question causes you to have to think about what do you need to come up with the best answer. And so it causes them to reach deep into, so if you learn this, how do I apply that? So you're thinking more about what an essential question might be. I think that's an interesting way to approach that. Absolutely, and know my part of my background is my undergraduate degrees in English literature and so it's really really entrenched in this idea of storytelling and how you know a story with a oh did your audio cut out are you there? Now I'm here, just said storytelling is very powerful, yeah. let's go ahead and turn video off because I think we're having some connection issues and that might help. uh go. So where was I? You were talking about your English background. Yeah, so my undergraduate degree is in English literature, so storytelling is something I've very much been entrenched by with and by and in. And when I think about it in that context, what you're describing very much relates to this thing we would talk about in our seminars of, well, a story or a narrative with just a problem. is not very interesting or very compelling compared to a story or a narrative with a dilemma, a much more, you know, complex problem that maybe starts with one central problem, but then you have, then that raises another question. So very similar, uh very similar parallels there. And so you mentioned a second ago that, you know, mechanically, uh yeah, you can help teach people how to use the tools and that is a big part of what you do in your business. But you've also mentioned to me previously that you've fixed a lot of poorly built courses in the past. So what are the common mistakes you see and what do they tell us potentially about gaps in the field? Yeah, that's a great question. mean, some of them are really just mechanically, they built some things incorrectly. uh mean, uh so commonly one of the challenges of having tools like Storyline and Rise that are really easy to use is a lot of people do just pick them up and start using them and assume that they work like other tools they've used. And there are some cases that's true. uh know, articulate and Microsoft have a very similar ribbon style environment. So a lot of people who approach storyline with that mindset, there's a lot of things they figure out, yeah, I can do this because I can do it the very similar way when I'm opening an up PowerPoint or Word or whatever. um However, a lot of people end up picking up those tools without really learning some of the nuances of the tool and they just build things incorrectly. So that's one of the things we've noticed where there, you know, there's really no... need to do that. There's tons of resources available that are free, that Articulate provides, that we provide even at UConn. We have a whole YouTube channel that provide a lot of cool resources. There's also training you can buy to learn how to use the tools more efficiently and effective. there are some that are just basically, you did something and you did it in like five or 10 steps when there was really like a one step solution that Storyline already had built in. That would have been a whole lot easier for you to use. But the other thing we see a lot is one of the phrases we use around UConn is everything speaks. And one of the downsides of that statement is that bad design speaks louder than good content. And so think a lot of people go, I've got great content. This is stuff that we've used for years and it should work. and they presented it the same way they presented it when they presented it live in a PowerPoint deck. And um if you're presenting it live, you may be able to get away with bad design on the slides if you're a good trainer, if you're a good facilitator, because your presence in the room speaks louder than the slides. If you're a dynamic presenter, no one really cares what your slides look like. I've seen some horrible slides um in live settings before. And in many of those cases, it did not matter at all because the person presenting was so dynamic that no one really cared what the slides looked like. But in e-learning, you're not there as a presenter to distract people from what these slides look like. So the slides carry so much more weight than they ever have. Animations carry so much more weight. The synchronization of the what's happening on the slide with the audio, if you're using audio, all of that carries a lot of weight and, you know, being able to control the focal point and things like that. And um what I've found that due to a variety of reasons, sometimes it's just the person didn't have enough time or pressure from stakeholders to make things look like they've always looked or, or whatever, or not make any wholesale changes or, or a lack of skill. don't, they haven't learned how to do some of those things. designers sometimes just find themselves presenting that information with a bunch of words on a slide. That's probably one of the bigger things that we see. know, when people send us samples, we're looking at it going, wow, um that you could have just sent them a PDF and said, hey, read this document. Why did you turn that into an e-learning module if it wasn't going to be any more dynamic than that? um So we would really encourage people to think about, there a better way of focusing the learner's attention or framing the content in a way that causes you to want to know what you're going to teach me, to want to know what's on the next slide, not just to endure uh the content, a lot of, especially compliance courses, for some, it's just so hard, that challenge to try to make something interesting that everybody in the organization knows you're taking it because you have to. How do you get to that? Well, why do we have to take it? Why does somebody think this is important enough? If you can get to that, then you can begin to hopefully yell at this content, earn the right to take up space in people's lives. There's a reason we need to know this. So how do we capture that other than just presenting the content the way it was presented by the subject matter expert? um Figuring that out is not always easy depending on the content. Some content screams for opportunities to be creative and experiential and uh it just plays well. Other content, it's like, don't know how to make this appealing to anybody. um And so that's where it becomes really more challenging for a lot of people. Are there ways of even if you're presenting the content as dry as it is, of at least making that design more visually appealing. So some of the things we see are, you know, they haven't really, they've just taken the content, the way it was presented to them from the experts and just re-representing it, not changing the lens, not changing, you know, the point of view for, to make this where the learner understands it. uh McTighe and Wiggins would call this the expert blind spot, but presenting the content, as someone who already knows the content to people who don't know the content. So how do we get beyond that? so other than that, the other big thing is just, really not, I mean, there's so many people and we run into them all the time that attend training and they're going, well, I've been using Storyline for, you know, five years. So I feel like I know everything there is to know. And, you know, sometimes within the first couple of hours, those people were going, I never knew this existed. You Or we have people go, when did they add that? And I'm going, what do you mean? so, well, that wasn't in my version of Storyline before. And I'm going, well, this has always been in Storyline. So they just, you know, and it's no fault on their own. They've been given a task. They have to use Storyline to build training and they they haven't had the time to explore what other things could we do? Is there a better way of doing it? You're going, I have a deadline to me. So if I've got it done, even if I've just pieced it together in some sort of half-hazard way, it's done and I can get it off my plate and move on. Within that way they did it becomes their way of doing it, which might not be the most effective or efficient way. Thank you and we have one of the things I've- go ahead. You don't have to get in and edit all that out and make sense of it. No, that's really helpful. I'm hearing this uh really big emphasis on alignment, right? Aligning the design with the content and using the tool in the most effective way possible. so I know, you UConn has been widely recognized for, you know, being the training partner of Articulate and I'm... also know that you do a significant amount of custom development work, developing programs for organizations. So how do you think about balancing those two sides of the business and what should more people know about how they can, those two sides can actually complement each other? Yeah, I mean, that's a great, yeah. it's, it, does seem odd. Um, I know when I've had new trainers join the team and we talk about the two things we're doing, there's sort of going, wait a minute. We're, we build courses for a living, but we also teach people how to build courses for a living. So they don't hire us. That it seems like that these would be in conflict with each other. And it, it can feel that way from that one perspective, but you know, our goal and our mission. UConn Learning is making e-learning easy for everyone. And so we're very fortunate to partner with Articulate, who has a similar mission in making learning easy. And so they've created tools that are easy for people to use that help us fulfill our mission. And the two main ways we approach this, as you mentioned, is we either teach you how to build your own or we build it for you. Those are really the only, our niche. And I have people contact us all the time about hey, do you wanna use these tools or do you wanna do whatever? uh We're very narrow. We only use the Articulate tools and we only teach the Articulate tools and that's kind of where we live. But even though it sounds like they may conflict each other, uh we end up building a lot of courses for organizations that we've trained. if the training experience with us was positive, which... We hope it is. If not, we hope someone lets us know so we can make it positive for them. We guarantee what we do. But if it is positive, then those organizations trust us when it comes to doing things in Storyline Arise that they don't know how to do. So later when they're working on a project and are going, know UConn knows how to do this, then they might reach out to us or they know how to do it. They just don't have the time. I mean, we sometimes train organizations that the organization is fairly large, but their training team is like two or three people and they have a lot of courses to build and they're going, can we build it? Yes. Do we have time to meet the deadlines that are uh looming over our heads? No. So then we just become that extra pair of hands for a lot of development teams to design templates, uh to build more complex designs that they don't have time to. get in and figure out or just helping them do it faster. um So that's kind of the way it works. And then when we're done, if we build for somebody, since they've been trained, we give them all of the source files so they can manage their courses, they can manage updates, they can use that course as a template for other courses they're building. So they might not need us except for that first. build time and then hopefully that's made it easy for them as they move forward. There are some that, know, our biggest, when we look at our development work, our 100 % biggest referral for development work are repeat customers. It always is. It's been from the beginning, people come back and have that built. And it doesn't mean that they, like I said, they can't do it. It just means that for whatever reason, our hands in there help them get it done better or faster. And then there's some that we built for that don't want to know how to use Storyline. They just want it done. But we still give them the source files just in case they ever do choose to learn Story. That's kind of the balance. don't know if that makes sense or not, but that's the approach that we take. It makes perfect sense and I'm a bit of a business strategy nerd so when you're saying, to some people it seems like these two aspects can be in conflict with each other, what I'm seeing is, this is a classic example of a beachhead strategy where you're really focusing on doing one piece of it really well, in this case, helping people learn the tools, and then once you're... you've got that market down finding opportunities uh to expand and to provide even more value. So from a business strategy perspective, uh it seems to me to be just plain smart, you know? Yeah. There are times it does. mean, we've had people, they attend training and then a year later they say, Hey, I want to send you a course to help me with. We had a vendor build it and we can't figure out why it's not working. And then they'll go, that's something like, I didn't realize y'all also built courses. And we're going, you know, we had this relationship with you and we showed you tons of examples of things that we built. But when we're doing the course training, we're showing them, hey, we're showing you how to do this with layers. Well, here's some layers that we built for this course we built for Disney or whoever we built for. But for whatever reason that they didn't connect those dots that, hey, you actually do this for a living. And we could have built it where it wouldn't have needed to been repaired. But we're often having to repair work, nothing against other vendors. It's just sometimes they chose a different approach. to how to build it and then someone goes in to try to fix it. And that's really the hardest job is fixing work that someone else built. That's if they didn't use your best practices, it's really difficult. But there are a lot of people that still don't connect the dots that we do both of those jobs. And so we've lost some opportunities at times because people just saw us as the training people, not as the also development people, but our actual, our training team is like, three and if you count the central design, four people that actually do training. And there's 25 of us. So most of the rest of that team is building courses. So it really is the bigger part of our job is building courses for people. But still we're known as a sort of a training partner for Articulate. But so sometimes that it's not a great, that connection doesn't come natural for people. And when it does, it's really a nice. The training sometimes helps us earn the right to be heard in that organization. It also, for some, you know, one of the things that happens at times is we might be the first experience that a lot of users have even with Articulate. Because they come to training just using the trial, they've been told, we're looking for tools to use. And so there's a lot of, uh I wouldn't say pressure, but... there's a lot at stake of us giving them a good experience so that one, they value the time and the experience they had with UConn learning, but they also have a valuable experience using the Articulate tools. So they come away with a good taste in their mouth for both of those. So they could go back and say, yeah, these are the tools we need to purchase now. um So we see ourselves on the front line a lot and helping introduce sometimes even introducing e-learning to an organization. But definitely introducing Articulate and of course introducing our services to people who are building e-learning. Absolutely. Thank you for that. And I want to uh shift gears slightly in the last few minutes of our conversation. So one of the goals of this show is not only to explore how learning is evolving, but also to spotlight some of the leaders behind that evolution. And what I've found often is that the people doing the most meaningful work are, they tend to be behind the scenes. So How have you thought about showing up publicly as a leader in this field, whether through speaking, content, or other forms of thought leadership? Yeah. um So we're currently involved with a few organizations that put on oh conferences. uh we partnered with, for example, a training magazine and the Learning Guild for some time now. And so we do certificate programs for them. And uh those usually happen at the beginning of those conferences. And there are other times that we provide other resources and opportunities. I've been with the Guild probably doing several years ago, we started and then I became a guild master, I think, COVID year, I think, was the, maybe it was cause no one was there and that they ran out of people to give it to for during COVID. But we've had those connections and then we, like I said, we worked with Training Mag on their two main conferences that they put on. So we definitely tried to have a presence there. Those are more opportunities for us to help people. Again, they're already coming to that area and they want to learn about Articulate uh with a story on a rise. So there's already a captive audience and they pay for that, the pre-con or the pre-conference sessions uh to learn. And then we usually have a booth presence there too to meet other people. And it's not always, people always ask, what's the return on investment at these conferences? And sometimes it's hard to put a figure on that because it's more about continuing to build those relationships. And if we weren't there, it would feel like something was wrong, like, well, why weren't you there? So we do try to have a presence at those. And there's also things like this year Articulate's doing Articulate Land, which they've taken their, something they did last year at the DevLearn conference. They've done small versions of that. in different cities across the country. And so we've been a part of some of those. We had one of our trainers at the one in Tacoma. And then there several of us that are going to be at the one in Boston coming up in September, I believe it is. So we try to do as much we can with Articulate. When they have a presence somewhere, we try to support that as well. But then there's also, I'm really Over the years, I've been able to develop relationships with people that aren't quite even in our field. Our friend, Megan Torrance, you may have heard of Torrance Learning, created a group called the StamTitch Group. And it's like a weird, don't know if I'm saying the word right, but like an informal group. And we meet on a regular basis and it's a whole bunch of people just in the evening, we get on the phone or Zoom and we just talk about. Hey, what are some of the things going on in the world of learning that we can learn from each other on? And so, you know, very few of them are storyline people or articulate people. They're doing their own. Some of them are in AI, some of them are doing analytics. They're doing a lot of different things, but we can at least learn from each other what's going on in the business. So think there's a lot of opportunity to collaborate and to help shape what's currently happening in e-learning. and learning in general, but also some of the future of what's happening. So, whenever there's an opportunity or someone says, hey, do you want to be on the podcast or would you like present for this, local ATD? I was just talking to one of our trainers today that was asked about presenting at a local ATD and I said, yeah, go for it. If you've got the time, go for it because it's just another way for us to spread who we are as UConn, but also to help people. um get a little bit better understanding of Storyline and Rise as well. Certainly. there's this blend of showing up and providing value for people as well as generating visibility for Yukon. Definitely. Definitely makes a lot of sense. And, you know, to wrap, to wrap us up, what advice would you give to organizations and LND practitioners who want to bridge the gap between theory and real world application? Yeah, you know, there's an exercise that we do at the beginning of our, we do an essentials of e-learning design course. And the exercise we do at the beginning is we ask the participants to think about their own most impactful learning experiences. So could have been as a child in school, it could have been in college or wherever professionally, uh what are, think about, you know, your own experiences as a learner. And what were those ones that were just the best, the most impactful? And then just begin making a list of the characteristics that made that experience effective or meaningful. And then we begin to collect those lists. hey, let's write them up on the whiteboards. And we begin to write down all of these principles or characteristics that people... It's like, well, it was very learner centric or it was fun. um We got to make decisions. It wasn't just a lecture. There could have been a lot of neat things, whatever they put on it. And then one of the key points of this exercise is just to help remind people that we kind of already know what works because somewhere at some point in our lives, it worked for us as a student. We know what it's been like to be on the receiving end. of good training, of a good learning experience. And so then we then, over the course of that training, and when it's done virtually, it's over five virtual sessions, if it's done live, it's two days, oh we experiment with different approaches, we experiment with different theories, and we always try to go back and connect it to those characteristics we listed that were our experience. And the big idea here is um these things didn't happen accidentally. um We know what worked for us. And then as we start learning about theory, we realize, wait a minute, that teacher back in high school, that was an intentional design of how they taught that to get us to that place where we had that powerful experience. And so we begin to say the big thing that I remind people is whatever you do, you need to design with intention. Why are we doing this? Why are we even building e-learning? Why are we putting that graphic or these words on this slide at this moment? What's the intentionality behind it? And I think just being intentional about, hey, good learning just doesn't happen. there's theory behind it. You might not always know what it's called, but you know, one of the things in the experiential world, we used to jokingly say, well, it works in practice, but will it work in theory? Well, if it's working in practice, that's really more important to the learner. They don't really care if you're going, well, I used Addy. They're going, I don't even know what Addy is. I just know it was a good experience. So um they don't care about how you got there. But if you can connect that. to how you got there and create those experiences, then that's really, you want it to work in practice. And you might come up with your own theory of how you got there. But if you get there, I think that's what's valuable to the learner. Not to say this was why. I I just think it's being intentional. It won't happen by accident. Yeah, I love that. I love that focus on intentionality and yeah, like you said, good learning is not going to happen by accident. So to conclude our episode, Ron, thank you so much for joining me and for sharing your perspective, your experience and a lot of your expertise here. And, you know, for folks who want to stay connected or follow your work, Where's the best place to find you and to find UConn learning online? Yeah, so uconnlearning.com is kind of a good place to go. If you go to the Articulate site and click on their training tab, we're accessible through there as well. uh There's something called the Training Partners page. You'll see that. But you can also connect with me on LinkedIn. It's just Ron Price. uh And I'm out there on LinkedIn. uh But yeah, uconnlearning.com is probably the easiest way. uh Y-U-K-O-N, a lot of people go U- c-o-n-n thinking with the university, but we're not. y-u-k-o-n learning dot com and you can find us there and we'd love to connect with you. Love to link in with you if you're into that. And through all that process, me a message and we can help you out. Glad to share and we have our YouTube channel. If you go to YouTube and look up UConn Learning, we have a lot of free videos out there for people to just learn how to do stuff in Storyline and Rise. Great, thanks again and I will make sure to put those links in the show notes so you can find them pretty quickly and easily. And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. And if today's conversation got you thinking about how your own presence online could better reflect your expertise and even help attract the kinds of opportunities you're ready for, That's exactly the kind of work I help leaders with, so feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time on Catalysts.