L&D as a Change Catalyst: Cole Bastion on Leading L&D as a Strategic Engine

In this episode of Catalysts, I’m joined by Cole Bastion, Senior Director of Learning and Culture at HOA Brands, where he's helped reduce management turnover by 10% and transformed L&D into a powerful driver of enterprise-wide change.

We dive deep into how Cole positions his team not as order-takers—but as change makers.

Key topics we cover:

• Why L&D must become the “epicenter of transformation” in the org
• The risks of staying in the traditional training lane
• How Cole earned the trust to facilitate annual strategy sessions with the executive team
• His process for evaluating new tech (and avoiding shiny object syndrome)
• Why visibility matters—and what it’s opened up for him as a leader

Cole’s story is packed with insight on what it really takes to lead learning with purpose, partnership, and influence.

🔗 Connect with Cole on LinkedIn: Cole Bastion, MSIOP

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Transcript

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Hey there and welcome back to Catalysts, the leaders shaping the future of learning and growth. I'm your host, Jacob Ratliff, and this is the show where we spotlight the bold thinkers, builders, and leaders who aren't just responding to change in our industry, they're driving it. And today I'm joined by Cole Bastion, Senior Director of Learning and Culture at HOA Brands and a globally recognized transformational learning executive. Cole is known for turning L &D into a strategic engine for growth, embedding learning into the heart of organizational transformation, and scaling programs that drive culture, performance, and results. At HOA Brands, Cole has cut management turnover by 10 % and led enterprise-wide change initiatives that are as bold as they are effective. So in this episode, we're going to dive deep on what it really takes to shift L &D from order taker to change maker and how to position learning as the epicenter of enterprise transformation. Cole, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really excited to see where our conversation takes us today. Yeah, thank you so much, Jacob, for having me. I'm extremely excited to share and see where we take this conversation. Likewise, so let's go ahead and dive in. You've said to me previously that to stay relevant, LND teams need to become change catalyst departments. What does that shift actually look like in practice? You know, I think it's a as complex as it might sound or maybe ambiguous, probably to some. uh You know, and I, when I first started leading an L and D department, it didn't really happen intentionally, probably at first, it was probably more organic. then now as I've gone through the experience, certainly will be intentional as I continue my L and D career. What I think really happens, and I think it's important probably to start with why is it so important and then talk about what does it look like really in practice. And I think the why behind it is, when we look at an organization and we look at what's happening within this, especially a complex enterprise or maybe even a smaller kind of entrepreneurial environment, there's always a competition for resource. There's competition, whether it's for time resource, it's money resource, or just the ability to have attention from the organization overall. And so when we're looking at overall change, change is happening at the organizational level all the time. And change takes the ability to learn something different. It requires behavioral change, whether it's small behavior changes and guest service, whether it's large behavior changes and leadership's ability to guide an organization through something really challenging and complex. And L &D leaders, in my opinion, are the best poised to be able to help the organization navigate that really complex change environment because they understand what does it take for people to understand change, adopt change, and be able to really champion change to the finish line to then get business results. And so I think the why behind doing something like this is, you know, if you're able to identify what those change elements are going to be within the organization at that organizational level. Position yourself as the change catalyst or the department or the leader that can help ensure that that change effort is actually successful. The ability for you to compete for resources becomes a little less competitive because the resources within an organization are almost often going to always go to... the largest change initiative that is going to be seen as giving the best return on investment. And so within that, what oftentimes you can do as you're connecting yourself to being that change catalyst is how can you then begin to position within those change efforts, additional L and D, what we would call traditional L and D initiatives, which one might be developmental opportunities or teaching different models or things like that. inevitably as you're going through change, you can help position the organization or the people to adopt change by ensuring that they understand why they're going through it, what it means to them, how to accept it more, or how do I navigate this as an individual or as a leader? And so to me, that's kind of the why as also a little bit into what does it really look like in practice. And then I think an additional part of being able to really make that your department in a position or put yourself in a position to be able to do so successfully goes beyond being, you know, what I just described as the change catalyst or identifying what those opportunities are, but it's also being able to really create strong relationships with people, you know, and we talk about this a lot, you know, L and D needs to have a seat at the table. You know, we need to be looked at as, you know, okay, they need to come to us and I believe that if we have a seat at the table, that's step one, but it's not the final step. What we really need to be is we need to be the person that's helping to actually make the decision. And so it's not just that we're being consulted for the decision, because a lot of times having a seat at the table is usually a little step or two behind the decision-making process. In my experience, you're at the table, but the decision on what the change is going to be has already been to some degree made. The conversation on what the change is going to be and all of that has happened in conversations well before. And so how do you position yourself to be able to be in those discussions um well in advance of being in air quotes at the table? And that really becomes, that transitions us I think from being at the table to really being a strategic business partner um and being seen as, okay, they're. not just L &D, they're not just focused on these operational things or the traditional leadership development or really whatever those particular things are within an organization, but they're really here to help us as a company think through how do we, when we want to change something or we want to grow or we want to position ourselves differently, how do we get our people to be able to do that with us and for us in the most successful way possible? Excellent, thank you. so you mentioned kind of just being LND, right? Kind of staying in that traditional learning lane. uh So as a leader, so as one leading the learning and development team in your organization, uh how do you really concretely, I'll say, really position your team to have that big impact, to have that seat at the table? Yeah. I'm sorry, I think I might've missed part of the question. Go ahead. no worries. ah I got a little, I was, yeah, got a little, tripped up my words a little. Let's try this again. Excellent, thank you. And so I know you mentioned uh kind of just being LND, right? This idea of staying in that traditional learning lane. And so what are the risks that you see in that and kind of staying in that lane and- How can leaders begin to position their teams to break out of that lane? Yeah. It's a really great question, Jacob. You know, I think one of the risks inherently in kind of staying in that position, you know, especially if we look at and we kind of take a, you know, a 50,000 foot view and look at the macro picture of what we're all dealing with in today's economy is that oftentimes the unfortunate reality for all of us in L &D is that when the economy gets a little shaky and the business begins to have challenges, there's always cost cutting that becomes a part of the narrative, right, or the conversation. And oftentimes there is a look at the L &D department or what people or the company describes as cost centers versus value centers or, you know, profit centers. I prefer to call them value centers in my opinion, um you know, within the organization. And L &D a lot of times is seen as simply a cost center. because there is a cost line to the profit and loss statement or the P &L, but there's not a profit line, right? There's not a revenue line. And so there is this discussion on what can we get rid of? How do we, know, and so to me, the risk is you don't really move out of being the cost center organization to the value center organization, specifically meaning the L &D organization. And so by positioning your team, as the change epicenter or the change catalysts within the organization, you've uniquely identified yourself and your team as the go-to resource when it comes to ensuring that initiatives, whether it be a new uh system that needs to be rolled out within the organization, it's a new cultural change that needs to happen, it's a new policy and procedure, it's new benefits that need to roll out, it's, we're going to... I don't know, uh new technology that's going to happen or, you you name it, pick whatever change it might be that the organization is going to go through. You are now the epicenter of that change being successful because you have positioned yourself as the reason, right? Or one of the reasons in this case that it has in the past or historically been so successful or those initiatives have been so successful within the company. And so now, you have, even though you may not have a value line or a profit line on the P and L, you've shifted perspective from maybe being just a cost center to being a value center within the organization, because you can now draw clear lines of delineation between the cost that you have, and then also the value or the return on investment that you're bringing in, which is always a discussion that happens within an L and D team is how can we have a better return on investment? And so To position your team in that way, I think it's to, know, one of the things that can be somewhat challenging in this environment or, you know, challenging, especially when working with other people is how do you communicate it in such a way that they're going to understand it? Because having the discussion like we're having right now, Jacob, is certainly probably not going to resonate with, you know, some operations leaders, you know, because they're going to go, wait a minute, you're talking about the brain and change and... What it now, maybe if they're someone who really understands and enjoys theoretical conversations, they're gonna grasp onto it and they're gonna really love it, right? And maybe they need to be on the L and D team possibly. mean, who knows, right? But most of the time that's not going to be the case, right? You have to begin to speak the language of the people that you're working with. And so, you know, one of the things that I have done throughout my career is, you know, I've done obviously a tremendous amount of different assessments to identify how do I think, but then... and how do I communicate and what is my style? But then specifically, how can I begin to identify, even if I don't know with a fine degree of clarity, what someone else's preference or style or communication is, maybe I can guess to some degree so I can begin to change how am I positioning something for them? So if it's someone who really wants to focus on the financial aspect of something, okay, well, let me pull in some research from other organizations who've done this historically, right? um If you, and not just because L &D is involved in this, but if you take a practical approach to how you manage change, this is the result that you can get to from it, right? And really what L &D leaders are able to do is break things down into, from the theoretical into the practical. Whereas a lot of times change is managed either really highly theoretically, meaning that it never makes it into practical application or it's managed in such a practical way that it never gains any legs because there was never enough science applied to it to where people actually adopted it and wanted to go after it. And so L &D comes in, in my opinion, as the bridge between the two. And so if you can pull in some of the research that exists and use some of the data that's there to say, here's how some other organizations have done it in a more practical way by bridging the two. Here's what I can do to support that. You know, and then obviously the relationships that you've garnered over the time period that you've been there through other initiatives that you've been successful in. It just takes one time to jump in and given the opportunity. And then as you are able to create success in that, which in my opinion, L and D leaders are always poised to really drive success because we're just starving for the opportunity to help organizations lead people in the most successful way possible. That's just. At least in my experience, that's what my team always wants to do. We just want to help our organization be able to lead the people that we're charged with to do the best that they possibly can. And we just happen to know most of the time the best way to get there. Now, what we don't do is we don't walk in, Jacob, and do it in a vacuum. We don't make the decisions on our own. We don't say we have all the answers and that we are the bee's knees. It's a collaborative effort between us. the operation, all the departments that are gonna be involved. And so we'll come in and we will, you know, we have steering committees, we host focus groups, depending on what the size of the initiative is going to be. And we identify what are the needs that people have, what would they like to see happen? And really what ends up happening naturally is the initiative becomes the entire organization's initiative. Take for example, some of the programs we've launched as a part of a change within our organization around guest service. It's an L &D program by design, but operations, own it. You ask anyone, they're the ones that own it, it's theirs. They came up with it because they were a part of it. They got to be on the front end of it because we asked for their opinion. We included their feedback because ultimately they're going to be the experts in it anyway. So we follow that approach. uh And ultimately, if you do that on the front end, you're going to get really great buying and commitment as you move along the process. So you've mentioned to me previously, and I think this is a great example of showing up in this way, kind of having the seat at the table, being a real collaborative partner, that you've mentioned that you help facilitate, I believe I remember this correctly, the annual strategy sessions with your executive team. Do I have that right? So my question is, how did you personally position yourself to position your team? to earn that level of trust to show up in that way. You know, what's interesting is I don't know if I can take the credit for that, for positioning that. think that it was a combination effort between myself and the talents that I bring to the organization. So I certainly can't discredit, you know, myself either, because certainly if I didn't have the talent or the capabilities, it wouldn't have been offered. ah But at the time we were involving, his name was Phil Dixon and he's still a very good friend and mentor of mine. and he was coming in to do those facilitations with us. ah And so what naturally needed to happen is he needed a partner. He needed someone to support it. Well, my boss at the time, she needed to be able to have the opportunity to be a participant because she was on the executive leadership team. ah And so it's very difficult to be on the team as well as then facilitate for the team to get them through the strategy because it's difficult to be player and coach. Right. So because of my natural inclination for being a facilitator um and just my education and my master's in industrial organizational psychology and just the experience overall. I was brought in to support Phil and he and I obviously had a previous relationship and friendship. And so for a couple of years, he and I partnered on it. And he had done it a couple of years on his own independently. And then of course I came in and partnered on it with him. And then for the last, I believe it was two or three years, um he exited doing it with me. We would collaborate and I would ask him some questions on kind of the structure of the facilitation and what I had put together. But then ultimately I would facilitate it um independently. um There was a consortium of a couple of people from the actual executive team that would help design what the session was going to look like, including the CEO, so that we would get to the right outcomes. Another one was our CIO, our Chief Information Officer, because he's got a ton of strategy experience from his previous oh lives before coming to Hooters. And so we would meet together to identify kind of what are the outcomes that we want. And then, you know, I'd put the session together and then I would facilitate it. And so, you know, I think that part of it was the relationships that I had built over time, quite honestly. And I know that sounds extremely cliche and the lit, you know. the listeners are probably going, yeah, that may make sense. The relationships are there. But I think it also came from, they had seen me facilitate tons of sessions with small groups, massive groups, all the way in between, for the entire time that I had been here at Hooters over the last seven years. And it's just a skill that I naturally came by. And then when I started working with Phil and got the opportunity to do it, and they started to see kind of my ability to navigate in that space. And, you know, um I understood the business enough that I could have some really good accountable conversations with them in the moment while still retaining as it's really important in those sessions that I maintain um the composure and the kind of stance that I'm brought in as a third party consultant. Even though I am an internal team member, In those sessions, I'm a third party consultant. I'm not here to give advice unless I'm asked to do so. I'm simply here to facilitate the dialogue, help, you know, the team, depending on where Sal, who's our CEO, it's his session, it's his team, it's his organization. So I'm here to help him get the outcomes that he wants. How can I help him do that? I'm not here to serve any particular needs that I might have or want or whatever it is, right? And I was very, um I held that value very true because, you know, um on my own personal life, it's something that in the future I do on my own is do executive strategy um in the future. And so, you know, I wanted to ensure that I was able to maintain that level of, uh you know, uh confidentiality and then also just ensure that there was that level of ethics and integrity that was there. ah And so don't know if that necessarily answers the question, but I think it was a combination of relationships with different people. as well as just unique, the unique skill set, you know, that God certainly gifted me with. um And, you know, the relationship also that I had with Sal, you know, I've been immensely blessed to be able to um call him my mentor and been able to work with him for as many years as I have. you know, um it's not always often in our career that we get to work alongside the CEO and they see true value in the people that they work with, you know, and they go, you know what, I And he just does, he gets it, ah you know, and he realized, and he does it not just with me, but many people within an organization, within our organization for various reasons and wants to cultivate that talent. And he just saw that. uh And not to mention, you know, over the last three years, you don't have to pay an independent consultant to come in and do it. You know, you get to have a little bit of a cost save there too, because now you've got someone on the inside who can do it. And I think that also came with, uh an additional benefit for some of the people within the organization because they trusted me enough to hold them accountable, you know, for how they were showing up in the session. Because there's also team building that is happening in these sessions too, right? It's not just strategy discussions, also team building, it's team dynamics. And we're looking at all of that as a part of the conversation. um And so they trusted me to hold them accountable in those sessions and to give some coaching and guidance feedback. But then they also knew that you know, I understood enough about the business that they could trust where I was taking them in the facilitated discussion. um Whereas with others, you know, they may question, you know, not necessarily with Phil because they've known Phil for a long time, but just in general, sometimes, you know, it takes, you want to get to know who your facilitator is going to be because depending on the individual that's in the executive seat, right, depending on which executive it is, you know, they take a little time to get to know that person and trust, okay, where are they taking us in this conversation? You know. they want to establish that relationship. So I hope that answers the question, but it's been my true honor to be able to do that for the number of years that I have been able to do that um with Sal and his team. uh And it's something I'm quite Yeah, absolutely. And it definitely sounds like a great example of showing up as part of a value center, right? Rather than a cost center. So, shifting gears a little bit, uh I know you've spoken about resisting this temptation to buy into every new shiny L &D tool or AI solution. I'm curious, can you walk us through your process for evaluating a tool, evaluating tech. I know you've mentioned that it's all about starting with the problem, not the product. I'm curious if you could talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, and I it's interesting because I think it comes from, know, if we think back to our the last question that when the conversation were just happening around strategy, we always go in with, OK, what are we wanting to accomplish? Right. What are our goals or what is the problem? Or, you know, there is something that we have in mind that we're trying to get to. Well, I think the same thing comes when evaluating technology, because we've all been to these conferences. Right. You go to ATD, which is fabulous. Or you go to any of the other conferences, you know. And you see, you know, Devlearn, CLO, I mean, and they're just wonderful experiences. But you go on the expo floor and you're overwhelmed by the sheer volume of the number of vendors that are there that want to sell you on something. And you're walking around and you probably like me, you know, get to the point where you're like, I could see value in probably every single one of these vendors in some way. Right. There's probably some value at some point that I could get from them in, in But we obviously can't do that. We can't buy from everybody. And, you know, the I'm a big believer that in my opinion, if you can, you know, there's always there's this push and pull kind of relationship and dynamic, I believe that we can have with our vendor and client relationship where the more value a vendor can provide to you as a client, the more value you can get them to give, the better they can value position themselves in the marketplace, you know. And so if you can help them be able to stretch and see themselves in that way. then they begin to diversify their product portfolio. But if as clients, we just always seek additional services versus push our vendors a little bit to solve additional business problems, then they don't grow. Right. So there's this push and pull, but that's another probably conversation. I think when we look at selecting technology, we have to start asking ourselves the right question. It's the same thing when it comes to coaching, you know, when you're coaching an individual. You know, you have to ask the right question. You have to begin with, you know, open-ended dialogue. And the same thing here is what are you really trying to solve? You know, pull back the layers. And I think it's, you know, we sometimes might make decisions in a vacuum with an L &D because maybe we're a little protective of what's happening within our department or, you know, we believe maybe we have the experience or the intellect to make the decision. But ultimately, for most of these systems, unless it's something that's specific to like course design or something that's only going to be used with the internal L &D department, the rest of the systems are going to touch somewhere else. And so it should then be ah used or it should be then shown um to those other departments or those other people. And we should be asking them, you know, what is it that you need? You know, we're seeing this describe what you believe the problem to be. you know, or believe, you know, maybe you don't even have your problem definition statement yet. It's not quite formulated. You just have kind of some different rumblings or different things that you're hearing, or there's some stuff inside, you know, the inner turmoil that we all know we experience. There's this challenge. So you begin to ask those that are actually experiencing it, because maybe it's just for you. I mean, I know for me sometimes, you know, I'll be feeling these things. I'm like, oh man, this is really frustrating for me. about this piece of software. But then I go and I ask my field team, and like, oh, this is working great. Nothing, it's okay. Well, it's just, that's just me then. We don't need to solve it if it's just me. We don't need to go to that length of going through that process. So then you ask those folks, okay, what's the problem? What's the, again, here's the steering committee process. I mean, there's a theme. you really, if we think about the undertone of our conversation today, Jacob, there's a theme of involving people, of asking the right positioning ourselves as, you know, being able to understand the brain, get by. I mean, it's just, mean, there truly is this kind of underpinning here or underlying theme. But if we ask them, then they'll help us define it, right? And maybe they are experiencing the problem. So then they'll help us define the problem. They'll help us put together what is our problem statement. And then we can start to go to market and say, okay, here's our problem statement. But before for myself anyways, I will ever go to market and look at a new solution. I'm first going to go to my existing vendors and say, this is the problem I'm experiencing. How can you help me solve it? Number one, because I don't want to spend any more money if I don't have to, right? Because I want to be able to use the rest of my budget for other things. I want to buy other programs like learning programs or development programs or whatever it is to really help the organization or the people of the organization to grow. um And then two, because I also don't want to shortchange the opportunity for the vendors to grow within their marketplace too. You know, I mean, if you think about it, if you have an LMS system, which we have one and it's fabulous, you know, there we use scoops. just a wonderful, uh huge advocate of the program. um But if you have an LMS system, and this is all hypothetical by the way, but, you never talk to them about AI for example. right? And the need that you have for it, they're probably hearing about AI. Obviously, we all are hearing about it right now. I how can you not? Unless we all live under a rock. But the vendor isn't going to go and spend the money, right? That it takes to invest in development if their clients or potential clients aren't pushing them or aren't having that conversation with them to go out and spend the money. And so in my experience, it's just better to go have that discussion. And maybe they're not going to be able to solve Maybe they're not going to be, okay, you know what, that's really not our wheelhouse. But what we can do is we can go help, can go find someone to connect with. So that way it's connected and integrated into our system so that all of it still is this seamless experience, right? I mean, at least, and then maybe that can't, is even a possibility, but they know people in the industry, right? And they know, and they've got, they can set up some, you know, referral conversations. So. That's where I always go first, um because at that point, then at least I know I'm going to get the best of the best. Maybe I won't have to spend any more money. Maybe I will, but it'll be through referral and we'll get some really good options to look at. ah But that's always kind of where I start is asking the right questions, identify if there really is a problem and then what the problem actually is. And then before going looking at all of these array of different vendors that are available, talk to the ones that you're already working with. you know, especially if you like them. Now, it's totally different conversation if they're not solving your needs today and you feel like you need to move away, that's, you know, that's a totally different discussion, you know, but if you like them like we do, then you know, that's an opportunity to have a mutual discussion on how can we advance this product further. Yeah, and it's a great example just to not to put too fine a point on it, but of trust um and right that in that importance of relationship. um It's always great to, don't know, as someone who works often as a vendor with an organization, it's always nice to recognize the kind of two way street that it really is, truly. um So. I know you've built a strong reputation in the L &D space and you speak at conferences and summits. Why is visibility important for L &D leaders and what doors has it opened for you? Yeah, it's a really great question, Jacob. And, you know, I am honored, number one, that I've been able to have such a transformative career so far. You know, I, it's been really, I wouldn't be here without many of the people that I've mentioned today, you know, Phil, Sal, Cheryl, you know, and I hope to be able to continue doing that for others that I come into contact with along my journey, you know. And I think that when we look at, you know, the kind of being able to have visibility across the uh L &D organization or the L &D profession, it's important because L &D learning and development is important. When we look at people and we look at how do people want to go about their career, learning is an evolutionary process. It is something that is constantly flowing and it is something that never goes away. And it is something that if organizations take it very seriously and it doesn't cost that much. mean, it does to some degree, there's a cost to it, but it's not like it costs as much as a lot of these other things that we spend money on. The amount of return on investment that you get by simply investing in your people's ability to learn something new, even if the topic has absolutely nothing to do with what your organization is trying to accomplish. I mean, we put together this career journey program and One of the topics that we are putting together for our regional managers is a course that is on seven different change models. Well, one might go, why in the world would you want to teach that? That doesn't have anything to do with Hooters of America. Maybe to some degree it doesn't, but we are expanding their ability to be great problem solvers. We're expanding their ability to be able to understand theoretical concepts. We're giving them something that they're not going to be able to get anywhere else for the most part. and they're going to get it for free. Working at Hooters as a part of their experience. And when you work for an organization that gives you that level of development, it makes you go, I really want to continue working here. They care about me. And some of our RMs probably are going to giggle when they hear this and go, there goes Cole again, talking about, you know, theories and stuff. And they do, you know, because I will come up with some of the wildest things that we talk about and we'll talk about different models. but then they start to replicate it and they want to learn more and they, you know, they dive in because it really makes sense. know, models and theories help us to understand the world that we're living in, right? Or the experiences that we're going through. And so the, in the world or the people that are in the HOA or the Hooters world, I'm so proud that their lives have been enriched. And I'm, you know, speaking from my perspective, and I believe that they would say the same thing as having worked here because of the things that My team has been able to provide them over the years uh and the conversations that we've been able to have. so visibility is important for the fact that it allows us the opportunity to highlight the need for that and to highlight the impact, most importantly, that it has on people within the organization because it gets all too often forgotten. across companies that the people that work for us are truly what makes the organization run so successfully. I it's very easy to say it, right? And there's a lot of platitudes that people will talk about and, you know, it's all great. And, you know, I mean, we all can get into kind of some spaces where we have that discussion, but then we have to sit back and go, do we really mean it? And the only way that you can measure it as an organization is if your actions meet and they actually demonstrate the words that you're expressing. And so I'm just really proud that, you know, through we, mean, there's so much more I wish we can continue to do at Hooters. You know, we haven't been able to even scratch the surface of the things that, you know, I would like to do, but we've also done so much more than I know other organizations have been able to do. And I'm honored that we've been able to do that and that the leadership team has allowed myself and my team to be able to do that because it's giving the people who work here the opportunity to learn something. And what we've always said is it doesn't really matter. I mean, we would love for people to stay here for a very long time, especially talented people, of course, right? We want the talented ones to a long time. However, we also are not naive enough to believe that people are going to be with us forever. And so what we want to do is we want to prepare them as best as we possibly can so that they can do great things while they're with the brand or they can do great things beyond the brand. But Hooters can be a part of their history and a part of their story wherever it is that they go. And so that is what is I think visibility does is it allows us as L &D leaders to be able to tell that story because emotion is what drives impact. Emotion is what's going to get people to go, OK, we have we need, you know, of course, it's the, you know, numbers and all of that. can that part is super important in business. But if you can begin to attach the motion. the emotion of what this is actually doing with the results that are coming behind it together, you're going to be unstoppable. You're going to get what you need to be able to provide your organization and the people that are within your organization, the resources that they need. And so, you know, the doors that it's opened up for me to be able to speak on these conferences is what it has done is the opportunity to do things like this. And then it also has given me the opportunity to mentor up and coming future L and D leaders. You know, I love the opportunity to share the things that my team has been working on. um You know, we are pretty open with the things that we have and we talk about because, you know, we haven't cracked the code in everything, but we certainly, I think, have cracked the code in some things. And so we'd love the opportunity to share that, especially if others are looking for those types of resources or want to learn more. And then it's also given me the opportunity to create some really good friendships where I can learn from others um along the journey. and create this community of L &D leaders because we're small but mighty when it really comes down to it. know, the L &D community isn't really that large when you really start to look at it across the, you know, the United States or the globe. ah And so that's been a really exciting part of this journey too. Excellent. And like you said, it really all comes back to being a value center. That's really what you're describing here is how can we show up and provide the most value. uh Cole, thank you so much for joining me up this conversation today. One last question is that for folks who want to stay connected or follow your work, where's the best place to find you online? Yeah, well, thank you for having me, Jacob. This has been an absolute pleasure and honor to be able to talk with you today and share with your listeners. I hope folks have been able to pull something um from it. And certainly I would love to connect because I'm always looking to learn from others as well as share. So LinkedIn, my name on there is Cole Bastion. You might see Cole Bastion. MSIOP is the full name on there. So you can certainly connect with me on LinkedIn. And obviously I'm on Facebook too. If you want to connect on Facebook, I don't really post too much on, not on Facebook, but you're welcome to connect with me there as well. But LinkedIn is the best spot to connect and stay connected as we kind of go along this journey. Excellent, and I'll make sure to at least put the link to your LinkedIn profile down in the show notes. Thank you again for coming on and sharing your perspective, your experience, and really your vision for what LND could really be in an organization. And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, Please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next and you can connect with me on LinkedIn as well. And if today's conversation got you thinking about... how your own presence online could better reflect your expertise and the caliber of your work and maybe even attract the kinds of opportunities that you're looking for. That's exactly the kind of work I help LND leaders with. You can check out the link in the show notes as well to learn more about that. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next time on Catalysts.