Catalysts: The Leaders Shaping the Future of Learning and Growth

Beyond the Buzzword: Nick Day from Roundtable Learning on Making XR a True Learning Strategy

• Jacob Ratliff

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In this episode of Catalysts, I sit down with Nick Day, a learning leader at Roundtable Learning, where he designs immersive, tech-driven learning solutions for enterprise clients—including over 50 Fortune 500 companies.

Nick shares why XR (extended reality) is more than a buzzword—and how it can deliver measurable impact when paired with the right learning strategy. We explore real use cases for AR, VR, and mixed reality in soft skills development, onboarding, and performance support, plus the surprising data insights these tools can reveal.

Whether you’re exploring immersive tech for the first time or trying to separate the hype from the real opportunities, this conversation is full of strategic takeaways.

Here's what we chat about:

  • How virtual reality improves soft skills by offering _real practice with real feedback)
  • The power of tracking body language, decision timing, and eye contact in VR
  • Why Roundtable focuses on learning problems—not just tech solutions
  • What bold innovations are being tested right now with real-world hardware + XR
  • Why learning leaders need to slow down, ask better questions, and avoid shiny object syndrome
  • How visibility, partnerships, and peer conversations accelerate innovation

Connect with Nick on LinkedIn »
Learn More About Roundtable Learning »
The Training & Development Channel on YouTube »

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Hey there welcome back to Catalysts, the leaders shaping the future of learning and growth. I'm your host, Jacob Ratliff, and this is the show where we're spotlighting the bold thinkers, builders, and leaders who aren't just responding to change in our industry, but are actually the ones driving it. Today, I'm really excited to be joined by Nick Day, who is really helping redefine how employees learn and grow in the modern workplace. He's a leader at Roundtable Learning and he partners with organizations to design immersive learning solutions. So he's leveraging AR and VR, e-learning, instructor-led training and video to accelerate onboarding, enhance performance and drive development. Since 2019, Roundtable has delivered custom learning experiences for over 50 Fortune 500 companies, transforming training into a strategic advantage. Nick, thank you so much for being on the show with us today. I'm really excited to really dive right on in with the big question, which is that when you think about the future of learning and development, What shifts are you seeing that you think are really gonna define the next decade? Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for having me. Obviously excited to be here and for the warm welcome. You set that up well. Um, so hopefully as I mentioned to you before, we could provide some value to your guests here. I would say, I mean, you, you kind of teed it up. There definitely is a big adoption happening in the XR space as a whole. 2019 there was definitely a shift that occurred where we started to see more companies explore the technology and what it can do for training. But a lot of companies at that time were still unsure what AR was, what VR was. And now you have this catchall term that they get lumped into of XR and you have mixed reality. So definitely there's a lot that can can confuse folks out there. But I would definitely say the technology overall has been adopted as a training strategy and it is definitely providing results for a lot of companies out there in a multitude of use cases. So I would just encourage folks keep doing your research on it. If there's use cases, questions you have, we're always here to help. But it's definitely a good time to look at the technology if you haven't. Yeah, and I'm wondering, know, in my work I've done a lot of instructor-led training, uh really teaching people soft skills and helping them develop uh really strategic conversation skills. I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to the efficacy of XR in teaching soft skills and how that compares perhaps to instructor-led training. Yeah, I would look at it this way. Anytime you're looking at, I'll just use the term XR for purposes of this conversation. I think it's complimentary for all of these things. We never look at it as a replacement for doing something, but as a way to enhance it. So when we think about soft skills, You know, there definitely can be limitations when you're trying to learn how to have certain conversations that, you know, maybe it's not feasible to have somebody role play or to schedule time with somebody to practice that out. And things like using a VR headset and recreating certain situations allow folks to feel more comfortable having that conversation, having it in their own time. or maybe having that conversation multiple ways to see different outcomes. The whole goal with that is how do we create them to be more confident to have that conversation so that the first time they're having it, it's not uncomfortable with the other person that they're talking to. And they do feel more confident to have that conversation and maybe, you know, I'll reference a big one. Everyone talks about having a difficult conversation, especially as a new leader who's maybe never done it before. The more practice you have, even though nobody likes it, the more natural it can become. And I think it leads to better outcomes. So using technology like this gives them the opportunity to get more reps in and practice that. So you do end up having a more meaningful conversation in real life. Certainly. I'm hearing that when it comes to practicing, having difficult conversations, these emerging technologies can really complement uh someone practicing with another person. I'm curious, what advantages are there specifically around practicing in an XR scenario that you might not have uh if you're practicing with another human? Yeah, I would say the biggest advantage is the data that can be gleaned from that conversation. So when you're in a VR headset, especially for certain crucial conversations that you may be practicing, one is there's a number of variables you can explore to see different outcomes. So being able to essentially bottle up different outcomes and let you see how that plays out is extremely valuable. The other piece that's related to it is the data. So understanding what choice you made, why you made it. Things like having eye contact. I mean, we can track where you're looking when you're in that experience. Again, your body language is going to be very important to you having these conversations. So things like where you're looking. We've done things in the past with our customers where They're presented with a decision and some to employees may be very easy as to making a decision and which one is the right one to them. Other ones you notice that people will delay in making a decision. So that opens up an opportunity for a larger conversation potentially with their instructor to say, I noticed you you made some quick decisions here of what you thought was right was. But there was a delay here. Let's unpack that a little bit more. Why was there a delay? Were you unsure? know, there's really the data is the value that comes in from those conversations. Certainly, it sounds like there's a much higher level of precision in terms of the data that's collected, which means or leads to much higher precision in the feedback that someone is able to get and the coaching that someone is able to receive. That's right. mean, anytime that we can tailor the subsequent coaching conversations that happen, we know that folks are going to be more engaged, likely retain that information. And it's just beneficial overall, even from a coach's perspective. We want to coach where the gap is, and unless we know where that is, then we're probably just going to hit them with a bunch of different things. So now we have some data to really understand where the gaps are and coach to that. So in essence, you can make the argument that this will lead to more personalized learning, which is huge for the individual learner. Absolutely. so thinking about kind of what everything you have going on at Roundtable right now, you know, working with clients and such, uh what bold ideas or innovations are you at Roundtable most excited about implementing in the coming year or two? Yeah, I think the biggest thing we look at right now and things that we're experimenting on projects with our customers is the adoption of real world hardware to be used with virtual reality technology or even augmented reality. uh We have a lot of things going on with forklift training. We have a lot of things going on with driver training. We just completed a project uh with a large cargo carrier. in the airspace. So they're moving products on airplanes day in and day out, and there's a lot of safety to be aware of. using things like a Magic Leap AR headset combined with tracking real world objects has been very beneficial for them. And it's also, it's taken what they already had, a physical simulator and enhancing it. So. We're not asking them to ditch what they were doing is again, we're always trying to find that better mousetrap of how we can provide better training in the constraints that you already have. So taking that technology, combining it with real world objects is proving very effective for us. Excellent. So what does that process look like in beginning to work with a client and kind of understanding their constraints, what their current infrastructure looks like, and building something to complement it? What does that look like for you? Lots of discovery and needs analysis. So we're on planes and cars often getting on site with the clients. I would say for us is one of the benefits that we have is XR is a big part of our business, but our history is really rooted in learning. So for us, we're really trying to understand the training challenges that they have and then the goals and outcomes they're looking to achieve. In order to do that, you really have to Basically become an extension of their team and understand training today. What's the feedback they're getting, you know, why are they pursuing newer technologies? It's a lot of that discovery and analysis and really intake to just understand it. Once we do that, then we can provide the recommendations. And in many cases, I will tell you. XR isn't a one size meets all, it's going to solve all your problems, but it's finding the right mix of modalities to meet the learner where they are at that point that really provides the outcome. So this is something that uh has come up in every podcast conversation I've had so far. And I think you're kind of alluding to it here in some ways, which is that it's not enough to have a shiny object, a shiny new technology that's going to do something that instructor-led training doesn't do or that an e-learning module doesn't do, but really having the strategy behind and underneath it to support it. Right, we talk about shiny object syndrome a lot, like exactly that. I'm curious, when your clients come to you, do they generally have that technology in mind, or are they coming with a need in mind? Yeah, I would say 90 % of the time it's a need in mind. As the technology grows in popularity, definitely companies are connecting the dots to say, I could see where this can be used, but they're still looking for that expertise to make sure that they don't invest in the wrong areas. And that's what we're here to do is a worst case scenario for us is we're an order taker. We build something for them. It doesn't provide the outcomes. They're not happy with us. So in many cases, challenging the ideas they have or providing alternatives is a big part of what we do to make sure when we do partner with them, we're all going to be happy because the outcome was achieved. And now we can start looking at how do we expand it? How do we look into other areas to solve problems? So it's still very much, I would say new for many companies where they know what the technology is, but they may not be aware of how it can help with their problems. So it's still them coming to us saying, we know we want to reduce turnover. We know our safety incidents are too high. We know this, we know that based on data. I need to make an impact. Let's really dig into what is possible. Yeah, I love that. And part of the reason I ask is I was actually just speaking a couple of weeks ago with L&D leader in a Fortune 100 company who was telling me about this kind of AI driven software they were using as part of their programming. And I looked it up online as we were talking and it was, you I was kind of like asking, was like, so what's the difference between doing this and just having a person role playing with the other person? And she said, oh, I don't know. was like, that's exactly the kind of situation you're, it sounds like you're trying to avoid, right? Yeah, I mean, you're spot on. We know human nature. We do like to chase the new shiny object that exists. And in a lot of times we see the technology and then we try and find the problem it can solve. we've just learned, mean, believe me, we're not perfect. We've made mistakes early on going down that path, but it is the benefit of all the years we have now in the projects that we've done. to really slow folks down a bit, even if they are excited, and just go back to the fundamentals of what are we solving, why are we solving it, and then making sure that it's actually going to be a fit versus chasing something new and flashy. Because when you do something quick like that, it's hard to get champions behind it on the enterprise side. if You don't get champions behind it. It's hard to roll out or it's confusing. Then you lose everybody in the process and it's going to sit on a shelf and collect dust. And that's exactly the thing that I love the most about being in LND is that at the end of the day, it's consulting is really what it is. It's consulting in its purest sense. Yes. That's the thing for me. thinking about your own leadership at Roundtable, even before that, as learning and development has evolved over the past, you know, five, 10, 15, 20 years, how has your own leadership evolved as well? Well, I would just say this. mean, our customers are our best consultants in terms of determining what they're trying to solve for and how we can help them most. So for us getting feedback from clients, what's working, what's not working. The biggest thing is continuing that feedback loop. mean, it's great when they come to us with a problem. but also we like to understand their business to the extent we can. mean, there's just certain things that they're not going to open up to us about, but knowing more about their business and being proactive to recommend things versus waiting for them to come to us has been huge. And also just knowing that this space changes so quickly now. And obviously everybody talks about AI and that's changing. feels like by the minute, um, So for us, it's also about just making sure from a leadership perspective, we don't get complacent on what we do now is going to be the thing that takes us to the next level. We constantly need to be talking and creating partnerships and being aware of new technology that is out there. But then keeping in mind the conversations we're having with our customers on how it can benefit them. So I guess I would summarize all that to say is, you know, we got to stay on the cutting edge too, and hopefully be able to come to our clients with ideas on how we can help solve problems. And that sounds like it goes back to exactly what you said earlier about you don't really just want to be order takers. You're really adding, truly as a strategic business partner em with your client. Yeah, and curiosity is what helps all of that. I mean, being curious about what the next level is, you know, in five years, I can't sit here and say that VR is going to be the leading thing that changed training. Again, it's moving so quickly. It'll be interesting to see what's next and you know how AI comes into play with all of this, which it will. So it's just being curious about what's next, what's coming next and keeping that curiosity certainly has helped us grow and also embrace new technologies and what they can do. Absolutely. So you're on this podcast interview with me. um And, you know, one of the things I like to talk about a lot with guests is being a visible leader in the L and D industry. So, right, being on this show with me means it's at least somewhat important to you. So I'm curious just to really explicitly ask, how important do you think outward facing visibility is for leaders? who are really shaping the future of work. I think it's extremely important. One of the, I guess, challenges in this space right now too is, I specifically talk about XR, is all the folks out there are looking to learn from peers. And whether they're in adjacent industries or completely different industries, it doesn't mean that a leader can't learn from that person and take what they did and potentially adopt it with similar success. And the more that companies can share their use cases and the results that they're seeing and be able to talk about it publicly, which is one of the hardest things. I mean, we work with over 50 Fortune 500 companies and I'd love to get on every podcast and tell you exactly what happened, but we're not able to do that in many cases. But the more that the LND leaders can talk amongst themselves, because it is still a small tight knit community, even though we live in this big world. All these companies talk with one another. So the more that they can share that, I think we all benefit from it. Going to events and being able to talk about use cases and share those insights and ideas, I think is extremely beneficial. And in podcasts like this, mean, we see more and more of them happening. And I think it's great because the information is getting out there. And a lot of the case studies that were done originally on things like XR at this point. are approaching four or five years old. And we all know our world has changed so much since then. And there is an opportunity to bring more relevant things to light that folks can learn from. Yeah, what you're saying really makes me think of Michael Porter's famous Harvard Business Review article, What is Strategy? In which he basically argues that kind of an operational advantage, a tactical advantage like using XR, is not inherently a strategic advantage because it can be replicated. In fact, it's only a matter of time before another company replicates the same technology or the same process. And so it really challenges LND companies not to depend on saying, hey, we have XR. That's the thing that sets us apart, but really dig a little deeper and find that true strategic advantage. I'm wondering how that resonates with you. I would say the strategic advantage is the company's willing to invest and know that not everything that they experiment with is going to be a home run. But the fact that they're not stuck in their ways and they're willing to try things to see the business impact that can be made, that that's the advantage. A company that carries that mindset. You know, I think about you know, some of our customers, the Walmarts, the Amazons of the world that have been doing this for a while. mean, part of what's helped separate them is the fact that they were willing to take that risk. learn fast, fail fast, and determine what works, what doesn't work, and then evolve that strategy to help support it and know that, again, what worked five years ago, we can't sit here and determine and say that it's going to work for the next five years. So I think that really comes back to the culture and the risk appetite for some of these companies to say. We know the world's changing. We need to do something about it. And we're willing to take a risk and make an investment to see the potential impact and outcome that could occur. To me, that's the advantage. Absolutely, because that's something that really no one can replicate in exactly the same way. uh Everyone can be forward looking, but not everyone can do it in the exact same way that one company can versus another. There'll be inherently different approaches. And a lot of people like to talk about being forward-looking, but there's a difference of the talking part about and then executing. So, I mean, that goes with everything we do. There's people that talk about certain things and there's other people that put the action behind it and that makes all the difference. And it's fortunate you can really, you easily see the difference between those people because one set of those is going to be publishing really amazing case studies on their website all day long, whereas another one might be a little bit light on that front. Yeah, absolutely. So I like to ask every guest this, but what advice would you give to emerging leaders in this industry who really want to make a bigger impact? Yeah, I would say keep exploring it, do your research. mean, obviously now there's a lot of resources out there to be able to leverage. Talking to your peers within, you know, respective industries, folks that you can lean on. It's probably one of the biggest thing I've seen is the openness for companies, even within the same industry that you view could be highly competitive. They're still very open to share what they've learned and what they're doing. Anytime that we can connect a prospective client that's looking at new technology with somebody that's doing it and let them go off and have their own conversation every time they come back with great takeaways from that. And I think reinforcement that they're they're looking in the right direction and it is something that they want to invest in. And then I would say further more than that is, you know, finding a right partner. that does have experience doing this. Unfortunately, in this space, there's a lot of people that have uh gravitated towards it because it is new, it is exciting, it is that shiny thing. But one of the things that's really helped us is we're not an XR company, we're a learning company. We look at it as a tool to produce results. So finding the right partner where they have the background to understand business problems, make recommendations and can help you along the way. and they don't just build it and walk away, they're there to support the rollout and make sure that it's successful. It comes back to finding the right partner to help you with that. Yeah, and it's ultimately more profitable that way anyway to develop, to create success with your clients and be there throughout the rollout. Because the next time there's a need that arises, right, you've kept the relationship going strong. You're top of mind. And even if you're not the person who can help them with that particular challenge, you probably know who can't. Exactly. Yeah. mean, a failure for us is a one and done project. So we're always trying to figure out, you know, it's overplayed now, but it's true of becoming an extension of their team. or a strategic advisor that when they do have challenges that learning can potentially help solve, that they think of us or at least get us involved in the conversation for our insight. To your point, we've been in plenty conversations where we can't help them. It's not something that's in our wheelhouse, but if we can make a recommendation and say, hey, we've had great success with these other companies, we've vetted them, we like working with them, let's introduce you. then it's still a win for us because at the end of day we help their client. Yes, absolutely. And that's definitely a common theme I've noticed among a lot of different L &D firms in a way that I've not seen in many other industries. Now, I'm not saying all L &D firms take that approach to competition and collaboration, but I notice it more so in learning and development than in other spaces. I would say that's fair. mean, again, a lot of that, I think, comes down to conversations and cultures of the business. We're very firm believers in partnerships. I think we can all go further together versus trying to just go at it alone. And if it means working with a competitor for the greater good, in my opinion, it all will work out in the end. And there's nothing that's really a secret from our standpoint. uh I think there's a lot of benefit in trying to partner in certain situations. So Nick, thank you so much for joining today. uh I want to ask for people listening who want to follow your work or connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Sure. I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn, so you can find me on there. uh Our website's always a great resource, RoundtableLearning.com, for blogs and articles that we do, case studies. We also have, I consider, a decent following for R Space on YouTube, which is under the Training and Development channel. We make a concerted effort to be posting videos at least twice a week, and uh hopefully more than that. So I would say definitely find us on YouTube, again, the training and development channel, as well as our website. We try and put as much resource and information on there so that folks can jump on, get the information they need, and hopefully help pursue a project with the information that they have. Well, thank you again for coming on and sharing your insights and perspective. know, conversations like this are exactly why I started this podcast. Really to spotlight what's next in learning leadership and growth. And if today's conversation sparked ideas about how your own online presence and visibility could better reflect the caliber of your work, that's exactly the kind of work I help leaders with, so feel free to reach out to me. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you next time on Catalysts.

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