From Fixer to Connector: Patty Miller on Leading with Curiosity and Clarity

In this episode of Catalysts, I sit down with Patty Miller, a senior HR executive with over 24 years of experience helping leaders navigate complex people challenges across North America. Patty is known for her sharp insights, unshakable integrity, and powerful frameworks like the Core Values Index and Vitality Pulse Review that bring clarity to messy, fast-moving workplaces.

We talk about the evolution of leadership—from fixing problems to facilitating transformation—and how leaders can unlock better results through psychological safety, personalized development, and just the right mix of structure and storytelling.

If you care about building stronger teams, leading with empathy, and turning workplace complexity into confidence, this conversation is for you.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why the future of learning will feel less more personalized and targeted
• How the Core Values Index can help leaders hire better and build stronger teams
• Why asking the right questions is more powerful than having the right answers
• How leaders can use visibility, vulnerability, and voice to expand their impact
• Why psychological safety isn’t just a nice-to-have—it’s a performance strategy

Connect with Patty on LinkedIn »
Visit Patty's Website »

Connect & Learn More

• Connect on with me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jacob-ratliff
• Position Yourself as a Thought Leader in Your Industry: executivebrandbuilder.com
• Interested in joining the show as a guest? Click here!

Transcript

0:01

Hey there and welcome back to Catalysts, the leaders shaping the future of learning and growth. I'm your host, Jacob Ratliff, and this is the show where we spotlight the bold thinkers, builders, and leaders who aren't just responding to change in our industry, but are actually the ones driving it. Today's guest I'm really excited about is Patty Miller, who is a senior HR executive with over 24 years of experience advising leaders across North America. Patty brings deep expertise in everything from recruiting and performance management to workplace investigations and leadership coaching. She's a chartered professional in human resources and a trusted advisor to organizations navigating complex people challenges. Beyond her corporate work, she's also a dedicated nonprofit volunteer. Beyond her corporate work, she's also a dedicated nonprofit volunteer and is really passionate about giving back. So today we're going to be diving in to the future of learning, the evolution of leadership, and what it takes to drive meaningful change in the ways that we learn and grow. So let's jump in, Patty. Thank you again so much for being here. Thank you, I'm thrilled to be here and to be one of your first guests on this amazing podcast. Thank you. So let's go ahead and dive in with one of the big questions, which is that when you think about the future of learning and development and growth, what shifts do you think are going to define the next decade? That's a fabulous question and actually a very big question considering AI and the time of the time we're in right now. So we're heading into an era I feel where learning is no longer going to feel like a course you have to finish. It's going to feel like support that shows up just when you need it. Think of it like a GPS for your growth, not a roadmap from 1995. I also see a huge shift from static training to dynamic. real-time role-based learning driven by AI, yes, but also smarter data. I think that we're finally going to stop treating everyone the same in the, you know, treating the same in the development programs. Why are we giving a new emerging leader or supervisor and a seasoned executive the same leadership content? It just makes no sense. So tailoring development based on how people actually think and operate. oh is going to be uh more and more common. And that's where assessment tools like the Core Values Index and emotional intelligence tools become so powerful. And lastly, I think we're going to see more learning that supports mental fitness, resilience, grit, and what I call clear thinking under pressure. Because the future of work is messy and people don't need more information, they need better ways to use it under stress. And let's be honest, work is something that we do all the time. eats up a very large part of our lives. so stress is a big part that comes, know, stress comes with life. And to be able to handle these situations m with more clarity, I think will really help uh every employee be better. I love that. we're talking about a much higher degree of personalization and a lot of kind of new ways to leverage some really powerful tools. I'm wondering if you could speak really quickly about or feel free to elaborate rather about the core values index for people who might not be aware of it. Oh, thanks. Thank you. I'm drinking the Kool-Aid with Core Values Index. I've been using this tool for over nine years. I personally have done over 3,000 assessments. And Core Values Index, or CVI, is the only assessment tool on the planet with a 97 % repeat score reliability that's been third party validated. So if you take it today and in a year's time, it's going to be very similar. Think of it as learning the stripes of your tiger. And when you understand who you are, how you be, then you can give yourself more grace. It also allows you to navigate your career with more uh clarity because you know, so as an example myself, I am not one that loves a ton of uh research and analytics and spreadsheets and data. It's not where I like to live and others love that. So... you know, I needed to realize why is this so de-energizing for me? And now I realize, okay, I can put my energy and my efforts towards other parts that I know I can be very successful at. And just I use CVI to help determine if leaders uh and individuals and employees are in the right seat doing the right work that they're asked to do, not just on the right bus, but in the right seat. So if someone likes to take more risks and they're comfortable with decision making, m they are a different type of animal than someone that needs a lot of processing time. So Corvias Index is a very powerful tool and I've been using it, as I say, for many, many years. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely sounds like it can be really powerful both for individuals understanding who they are, how they work, what they need to be doing, and organizations as well. I'm curious if you can talk a little bit more about organizational impact for those who have used this Core Values Index as a key tool for their people. um Fabulous. So I use CVI to uh assist leaders to get the right people in the right seats, as I mentioned. um To give a live example, I just finished coaching a leadership team of seven. And one of the managers who had the most people reporting up to him, there's four energies quickly under core values index. Power, which is deciding and doing. uh Love, which is relationship, vision, motivation, empathy. Wisdom, which is assessing and solving. And then knowledge, which is the conservation of data, history, facts, justice. So this individual who had the most people reporting up to him was light in the love energy. I need to underscore that that does not mean he is not loving or lovable, but his patience for the people issues. and wanting to dive into what you did on the weekend and wanting to hear about your dog, that's just not in him to give. So, you know, he was actually quite frustrated with all the interruptions that came with being a people leader. And ultimately, through conversation and uh working with the CEO, we decided that he needed to be a phenomenal uh doer, but to be more of a lone wolf. versus being on a bigger team. And so that's what we did. We moved him into a lone wolf role and he's a very key uh executive on the team, but he no longer has all these people reporting up to him. The people are happier, they're getting more support. We brought in another executive and he is galloping beyond measure in his more lone wolf role. So give people the work that they're wired for. you know, why put somebody into a role? And we see this all the time. You hire someone and you go, these are going to be your three core responsibilities. And they're nodding enthusiastically going, yes, yes, yes, because that's what us humans do. We want to earn the job. And then when the job is actually happening, a lot of times they might go, I'm too busy with these two core responsibilities. I can't get to the third. And so business does one of two things. They either hire another individual to take care of that third responsibility, or they limp through that work without getting it done consistently. And that's where Core Varies Index can help get people in doing the work consistently and in its totality the way they're wired. That's great, thank you for that. That makes so much sense. It definitely makes me ask why aren't all organizations doing this, right? Yeah, well, like, you know, respectfully, there's many, many tools out there like disc colors, profiles, Myers-Briggs, those assessment tools, they all have a repeat score reliability between 60 and 80%. So it's more like a uh litmus test of that moment of time. You know, if you were confident when you were answering the questions, you would present differently. If you were thinking about work life or personal life when you answer those questions, you would present differently. And so, know, Core Varies Index is raw and real. It takes only 10 minutes to do. And as I say, its accuracy is so strong. I can truly help boards and executive teams in hiring and in succession planning, ensuring that you have the best people on the team for the work that they can do. So I'm curious, know, in where you are right now, what bold ideas or innovations are you currently most excited about implementing? I love it. And again, this is always uh a moving target. Learning and development is never static, I hope. But I'm really fired up about making learning more like coaching, making it feel more personal and responsive and action focused. So one of the boldest shifts I've made in my own practice is using a learning diagnostic tool I call the Vitality Pulse Review. And where we sit down with people of all levels, listen deeply and find out what's actually going on under the surface, before we design any solution. So it's like turning the lights on in a room where we've been trying to clean in the dark. I'm also excited about mixing micro learning with micro moments. So instead of asking people to block off two hours, I want to show up in their inbox or Slack channel with a one minute nugget that makes them think, change or reflect. And I think that kind of cadence makes learning a part of the culture and not just a side project. And because it's only a minute and with micro uh moments, it's not going to feel like they need to block off this time, get their head in the game, et cetera. So I'll say this too. I love pushing the edges with storytelling. And leaders remember stories, not policies. So if you can't tell me why this training matters in a way that gives me goosebumps or make me smirk, it probably won't stick. Certainly. And so I'm definitely hearing, you know, between really building it and building learning into the flow of work and really using a narrative approach or, you know, making it such that learning is not just another thing to do, you know, another responsibility that gets tacked onto their to-do list, but rather, you know, a core part of their job, you know, especially when it's, you know, they can see the connection, right, between, you know, a micro learning module that takes two minutes and what they have on their app to do list for the rest of the day. Absolutely. So you've been doing this work for I think over 24 years. I'm curious over that time, I'm sure you've seen learning and development grow and evolve in a lot of different ways. I'm curious, how has your own leadership evolved over that time as well? So early in my career, I thought leadership meant being the fixer. Now I believe it's about being the connector. Over time, I've shifted from being the one with the answers to being the one asking the right questions. I've learned how to create space for reflection because insight doesn't just happen when people feel rushed, judged, or even misunderstood. The more I let go of needing to be the expert in the room, the more transformation I saw. And honestly, learning and development humbled me. You sit with enough teams and you realize everyone's doing their best with what they've got. People don't wake up to think, today I'm going to screw up, right? So until someone helps them see a better way, that leadership, helping people see themselves clearly and then walking beside them while they grow into it is far more impactful than just going toe to toe and telling them, this is what they need to be doing to be a successful employee on the team. Certainly, so you've gone from being the person with the answers to the person with the questions. I'm curious to hear a little bit more about what that shift was like, because I know for me, that's definitely been a huge lesson and one I'm continuing to learn every day. Because I write, we as humans like to be the ones with the answers. We like to be the experts in the room. So what's that shift been like for you? It has been actually very positive because you start to see people respond. And when you see people respond, you know, when I say about being the fixer and they're just the yes man or woman, right? uh I didn't feel that the connection was as strong. And so when, you know, when you have more curiosity and grace, you know, for the people that you're working with, you know, as I say, people want to do good work. and they don't always know what is their own blind spots. And I'm simply here to help them illuminate some of those blind spots. And I truly believe that the power of the mind is everything. You know, we all have our own, know, it's an inside game, this uh game called life. And, you know, the power of the mind is everything. And a lot of times leaders are making decisions out of fear versus confidence. And when you're making a fear-based decision, then you're thinking, am I doing this to make people happy? Or how is my manager going to perceive me? You're not doing it because it's the right thing to do. You're doing it to keep the people happy. And those are two different ways of being a leader. um One is a creative mind, and the other is the reactive mind. And you could still get a lot of good leadership done through the reactive mind, but that's kind of like putting the brakes. and the gas pedal on at the same time. You'll move, but it's gonna be jerky and you're not really enjoying the ride as much. When you can do it with confidence and um your inner dialogue and you feel that you've got that inner core and that inner heart, then you can make decisions without fear that people are gonna like you. And let's be honest, there's some decisions when you're the leader, you're not gonna be liked, but you have to do what you have to do. Thank you. One of my favorite topics to talk about uh when it comes to the consulting process, which really is what this is, uh is around resistance and how clients or generally the people you're working with may sometimes have resistance to the solutions that you're presenting. And so I'm curious thinking about how you've shifted from being the expert to being the one with the questions. how you've shifted to really valuing that connection with the people you're working with, how has that impacted the level or type of resistance you get when you're sharing a solution with someone? It has absolutely increased the acceptance factor because I'm on the same page with them. I'm here, I have their back. They're not just coming into a leadership course where you've got a talking head. I want to know one-on-one what makes them tick, what is their source of stress. And it has not changed, but servient leadership is still very, powerful. where a leader would say to an employee, you have all the tools you need to be as successful as possible? And that can be in the form of training, more one-on-ones, more uh mentorship, whatever that means to that employee to be successful, uh humble leadership is still going to be very, important. leaders with, now with people doing hybrid work, since we've moved to Zoom, if there's anything that one positive that came out of COVID is it's opened the world up a little bit more, but it also makes it more imperative for leaders to be visible. If you're working from home and you're kind of feeling like you're on your own island, and that's where you can kind of lead yourself astray by accident. so having that relationship with your leader that's positive is very good for everybody. And that's a great segue into the next question I have, which is that as leaders in organizations, we are ideally and hopefully very visible within that organization. um But sometimes that doesn't necessarily translate to the world outside, right? You're maybe a celebrity almost inside your organization, but you don't really have a presence outside of it. So, one of the things I noticed first about you when I was just looking through your LinkedIn profile, is the sheer number of things you're doing. Like you're so active, you're doing a lot, you're interviewing on podcasts, you're posting on LinkedIn. uh It's impressive, right? And so my question is, how important do you think outward facing visibility is for leaders who are shaping the future of work? Wow, that's a big one and it's a big answer. It's true, visibility is no longer optional. It's how we build trust and we shape thinking and influence the direction of the work, not just inside the companies but across industries. But let me be clear, visibility isn't about shouting louder, it's about showing up differently. So you share what you're learning. Again, back to my being humble, right? Share what you're learning. Share as a leader what you found didn't work. Talk about what didn't work. Let people see the process, you know, and the thinking and maybe even the little obstacles that need to be, that you overcome. Let people see the process, not just the polish. And when leaders are visible in a human way, when they share openly and they ask for input, they're curious, and they challenge a status quo, then they become magnets. People want to learn from them, work with them, and grow with them. And that's the ripple effect that we should be aiming for. And I need to underscore that that's not necessarily just for a leader with a title. That is for an individual who is owning their job, making their job bigger, better, and shinier, and showing leadership qualities while not being a formally. That is so critical, right? This distinction between, know, or this, guess, uh clarifying rather that leadership is not a title inherently, right? There are so many people with quote unquote leadership titles who might not display leadership qualities and leadership behaviors. And there are so many people without quote unquote leadership titles who are, and really like, you know, being a leader is an identity that you consciously step into. It's interesting, know, when I do my vitality pulse reviews, em always every single time there's one or two people that are on the team that are not a formal leader, but they are an influencer. They're the ones that have the trust of the people and people will actually go to them to talk about their manager or to talk about the issues. em And so it's those influencers. managers need to be aware of because they're the ones that are natural leaders that can step into a more formalized role. And so it's being curious and having that trust is very important. I, um, one of the things I've told clients in the past, you mentioned, um, showing people the process, not just the polish is that people find learning what I call learning in public, so attractive and so appealing. There's a reason why so many of the most prominent branding and marketing experts out there right now advocate for that approach because it's objectively. one of the most human and relatable ways to share yourself and build your brand with a larger audience. Absolutely. It's a very interesting time in the leadership world. It is. you know, generally, one thing I've told my clients in the past is that, you know, if you're, you know, quote unquote, target audience members are, they're looking for who, who to listen to, right? Whether that's a conscious or subconscious process, they're not generally going to be drawn to the person in the corner, shouting and holding a sign saying, look at me, look how much I know, look how great I am. Listen to me. They're going to write gravitate towards the person that they identify the most with that relatability factor. Mm-hmm. That relateability and also the psychological safety. know, because it's, everybody wants to look good as well at work, right? And we all have our veneer on. You know, we know for the most part to not burp at work, right? You know, we have our veneer on trying to, you know, to be, you know, the best version of ourselves. And ah I find that uh being a little bit raw and real and still confident, like leaders need to be confident, but uh you could still be uh vulnerable. And I think that when you can see a vulnerability, but a confidence, and again, going back to the confidence equaling strong power of the mind, then you can be more impactful with the people you work with. And there's a permission piece to it as well, you by being a leader who shows a little bit of vulnerability. It kind of some of the subtext there is that it gives other people permission to show a little bit of vulnerability themselves. I think that's absolutely critical as well. Mm-hmm. It's very critical. um Again, it all goes back to if leaders are not having the back of their people and the people don't feel taken care of, then productivity is proven. It will always go down. Profits and productivity go down. So leadership development is key. And I think businesses that are uh late in not investing in uh micro-learning or having, you or bigger programs or longer programs. So it's not just show up and throw up for one half a day, you know, but maybe this goes on for three months or six months because that way it starts to percolate in your brain a little bit more and it becomes more of your persona versus just getting a brain dump and hoping it all stops. So I want to ask what advice would you give to emerging leaders who want to make a big impact uh in their communities, in their organizations, in the industry as a whole? What advice would you have for I love that. I think I would say lead with curiosity, not control. People don't want perfect leaders, they want real ones. Real ones who care, who ask, who listen. And don't just wait until they say, you ready? You won't feel ready. Just start showing up as the kind of leader you wish you had. Also get uh good at managing your own mind. What I was talking about, that inner dialogue. That's either you're rocket fueled, or your biggest saboteur, learn to slow it down, question it, and replace it with something stronger. And to uh elaborate further on that, sometimes when you're going back and forth in yourself, and you're thinking, no, they're not gonna want me, or they're not gonna say yes, that's your judge and your saboteurs that are stopping you. And where you could just say, judge, get out of my head, I'm taking action. If you could do little moments like that, Now you're expanding your comfort zone. And the thing about a comfort zone, it's not like an elastic. Once you stretch it out, it goes back to its original shape. Your comfort zone is now that new comfort zone. And every time you push it, you're expanding your comfort zone, which expands your confidence and expands the breadth of showing up for the people that you work with. So get that inner dialogue really strong and replace it with something stronger. And something I tell a lot of my clients is stop hiding your point of view. If you see a better way, and this is not just the leaders, but this is employees, because I'm a very big proponent of job ownership. So if you see a better way or if something feels off, ask about it. Leaders who make impact speak with truth and compassion. So don't trade your voice for comfort. And don't go along to get along, right? know, too many leaders want to be liked. more than they want to be respected. And then on the flip side, the passive leaders, the extreme would now be the micromanagers. And again, that's an inner dialogue. Why are they not releasing a little bit more rope for the employees to do the work that they're doing? um It's because that micromanager, again, has an inner saboteur and they feel they need to control. And so it's ultimately these inner saboteurs that are keeping leaders from being the best. version of themselves. Excellent. Thank you so much. have one more question to close it out, which is that for folks listening who want to follow your work or connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Awesome, yeah, thank you. The best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn. I'm an avid LinkedIn user with almost 17,000 connections. And uh not that I'm going, look at the numbers, but that has taken me over 10 years to grow. And I've mindfully connected with people that are business leaders themselves, or people that uh are movers and shakers in their own right. I uh post regularly. on LinkedIn about leadership, performance conversations, how to build real trust and messy workplaces. And you can also check out my website at millernet.ca, www.millernet.ca. um on the website, I'll have programs like the Core Values Index and my Vitality Pulse Review and my ultra competitive recruiting model. My recruiting, as much as I love leadership, I've hired... uh 2,300 people in 25 years with a 94 % retention rate, which is 12 months or better. So that has gifted me the opportunity, because I'm the one on the other side of the desk that hits yes, or deletes your resume. So that's another big part of helping building up teams to ensure that they're the best hire for the company. So I'm always up for a coffee chat or either in virtual or in person. And if you love the tough conversations and you want better workplaces and maybe a little bit of mischief in the mix, we could have a great conversation. Excellent. Patty, thank you so much for sharing your insights, your journey and perspective. Conversations like this are exactly why I started Catalysts and I really love spotlighting leaders like you who are shaping what's next in learning leadership and growth. Well, I feel truly honored to be part of your podcast group and family and uh just wishing you massive success and keep being awesome. And thank you for your curiosity and your time. Thank you. And if you enjoyed this episode, uh make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. And you can connect with me on LinkedIn using the link in the show notes. And if today's conversation sparked ideas about how your own online presence and visibility could better reflect the caliber of your work in the LND space, feel free to reach out to me as well. That's exactly the kind of work I help leaders with. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next time on Catalysts.